Long Tan - Armour

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9 years 4 months ago #1 by Alecs
Long Tan - Armour was created by Alecs
Hi All,

First, hello :) This is my first post!

Im getting started in 1/35 armour modelling on an M8 HMC ( See my blog ), but hope one day to build something form Vietnam (specifically the battle of Long Tan) to remember my grandfather by who passed away last year.

This is him

In the book he contributed to there is mention of some armour who collected them after the battle.

Could someone point me in the direction of a good reference site where I could find out more about the vehicles which would have been used in Vietnam?

Thanks in advance!

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9 years 4 months ago #2 by Gary
Replied by Gary on topic Re: Long Tan - Armour
Hi Alec
First off, sorry to hear about your Grandfather his exploits are well recorded.
Secondly welcome to Kiwimodeller, hope you enjoy your stay and if you need anything just shout, always keen to see people's work so when you're ready feel free to join in and post some stuff.
I know there are a couple of people here that are well versed in the Vietnam war, I'm sure one of them can point you in the right direction.
Cheers
Gary



'Yea, Though I Fly Through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I Shall Fear No Evil. For I am at 50,000 Feet and Climbing.'

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9 years 4 months ago #3 by Alecs
Replied by Alecs on topic Re: Long Tan - Armour
Hi Gary,

Thank you. He did not speak much of the war, so we did not know just how well recorded they were until his passing.

Its good to have a seemingly popular site based in NZ-land! Its a rarity! I look forward to hearing from some more people :)

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9 years 4 months ago #4 by Glenn
Replied by Glenn on topic Re: Long Tan - Armour
Welcome to KM Alec, :)
The following user(s) said Thank You: Alecs

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9 years 4 months ago #5 by Dean
Replied by Dean on topic Re: Long Tan - Armour
welcome aboard. I'm not that big on Vietnam these days I'm afraid, is there any Vietnam armour in particular you want to find out more about, or just armour there in general ?

My wife calls me a curmudgeon. I haven't looked it up but I assume it means "fun loving and free spirited" or some such twaddle. I inform and perform over at www.militarymodels.co.nz and stick my oar in here as well. My passion is WWII 1/35 armour but I'm coming around to liking the odd 1/32 thing...

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9 years 4 months ago #6 by Alecs
Replied by Alecs on topic Re: Long Tan - Armour
Hi Dean,

Just the armour in general for now. I know they used M113A2 APC's (I think I know lol), but i'm not sure which tanks, if any, would have been present.

Would also be interested in the kiwi/aussie artillery. In granddads book it says the ANZAC's used 105mm artillery, but which ones? I'm re-reading it to see if perhaps I missed that info. He was the FOO for 161 battery so an artillery diorama would be quite fitting seeing as they are what helped keep him alive!

There where also some M109's of the US army but I can't recall how much of a role the played. Reading up on it again :)

I'm new to military in general so no doubt I will learn alot in the near future just by browsing, but its always good to ask to get a head start :)


Regards,

Alec

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9 years 4 months ago #7 by Alecs
Replied by Alecs on topic Re: Long Tan - Armour

Alecs wrote: M113A2


Err M113A1's I mean!

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9 years 4 months ago - 9 years 4 months ago #8 by Bishop
Replied by Bishop on topic Re: Long Tan - Armour
If I remember rightly that's all there was as far as vehicles go. The relief squadron used these to get to the spot. Paul Ham, in his book, "Vietnam, the Australian war", lists 18 105mm M2A2s, and 6 155mm US medium guns were used as the Long Tan action unfolded (p227). It should be noted that the title of his book refers to the Australian experience of the war. He lists 3 NZ troops in the 108 in Smith's charge. I was fortunate to have known Col Townsend for a couple of years. He didn't talk about it either.

Amateur plastic surgeon!
Last edit: 9 years 4 months ago by Bishop.

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9 years 4 months ago #9 by Dean
Replied by Dean on topic Re: Long Tan - Armour
The US used quite a bit of armour, the ARVN used M41s and M8s, the US used M48s, M42s, M113s, and assorted mobile artillery ( M107 I think ). Most likely a few M3 half tracks still around from the French too. I'm in no way an expert but I'm sure there are plenty of sites around that would cover who used what.

My wife calls me a curmudgeon. I haven't looked it up but I assume it means "fun loving and free spirited" or some such twaddle. I inform and perform over at www.militarymodels.co.nz and stick my oar in here as well. My passion is WWII 1/35 armour but I'm coming around to liking the odd 1/32 thing...

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9 years 4 months ago #10 by Alecs
Replied by Alecs on topic Re: Long Tan - Armour
Hi Bishop,

Thankyou for your reply. That's the conclusion I've come to with regards to the APCs also.

With regards to the 105mm, the only M2A2's I can find with google are bradley vehicles, and that they towed M101 howitzers so I'm guessing its the M101 which was used?

It does look very familiar to the artillery piece which bore his coffin.

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9 years 4 months ago #11 by Alecs
Replied by Alecs on topic Re: Long Tan - Armour
Found reference to an 105mm L5 pack howitzer and it looks almost identical to an M101! Now i'm thoroughly confused lol

Ill keep on reading :)

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9 years 4 months ago - 9 years 4 months ago #12 by Dean
Replied by Dean on topic Re: Long Tan - Armour
The L5 was what we used and shouldn't look anything like the M101 ( we replaced the L5 with the M2A2 )

This is the L5



This is the M1



This is the M2



The M2 and M1 are pretty much the same gun with some differences and we used the M1/M2 in WWII. We used the L5 in Vietnam. If you need to see one up close there's one at the RSA in town ( Te Aroha ), I've never done a walkaround for it because my site only covers WWII but happy to get some photos of it for you if you ever need them.

My wife calls me a curmudgeon. I haven't looked it up but I assume it means "fun loving and free spirited" or some such twaddle. I inform and perform over at www.militarymodels.co.nz and stick my oar in here as well. My passion is WWII 1/35 armour but I'm coming around to liking the odd 1/32 thing...
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9 years 4 months ago #13 by Alecs
Replied by Alecs on topic Re: Long Tan - Armour
Hi Dean,

Thanks for the info. There was a good chance I was mistaken, my mind wasn't exactly thinking about the artillery!

Ill let you know if I need photos, thanks for the offer :) will see what google digs up first.

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9 years 4 months ago #14 by Bishop
Replied by Bishop on topic Re: Long Tan - Armour
Definitely the M2A2 at Long Tan

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9 years 4 months ago #15 by Alecs
Replied by Alecs on topic Re: Long Tan - Armour & Artillery
Hmmm interesting. I did a bit of googling last night and came across what looks to be my answers.

On the 6 RAR Assn. website the following photo is shown with a caption

The photo above shows A 105-mm L5 Pack Howitzer of 105th Field Battery firing from the Bien Hoa gun position, South Vietnam, 1965. (L-R: Sgt Ian Morley, Gnr Frank Guylus, Gnr Dick Hall). Eighteen similar guns at the 1 ATF base at Nui Dat provided Delta Coy close support during the battle




I found another website about the 161 Battery in the depths of cyberspace from which I quote the following:

Initially, the battery was equipped with four 105mm L5 pack howitzers [snip] the L5s were replaced in 1967 with 105mm M2A2 howitzers


1967 is after the battle.

Would there have been exceptions to which artillery was used, or would the Battery's have been standardised? Again, excuse my ignorance in the way of the military!

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9 years 4 months ago #16 by Bishop
Replied by Bishop on topic Re: Long Tan - Armour & Artillery
No idea. I'm only going from what I've read, which isn't much. Note the black breach on this, I remember seeing this on AU guns, I thought it was only a dress thing.

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9 years 4 months ago #17 by Alecs
Replied by Alecs on topic Re: Long Tan - Armour & Artillery

Bishop wrote: No idea. I'm only going from what I've read, which isn't much. Note the black breach on this, I remember seeing this on AU guns, I thought it was only a dress thing.


Good spotting, Thanks :)
My next struggle will be finding a suitable model for it in 1/35...doesn't seem to exist! I think this one will wait until my modelling skills are up to a standard where I can scratch build it and do it justice.

Might do an M113A1 first.

Thanks for the help guys and the welcome.

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